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SOMETHING TO THINK ABOUT

When we begin the deeper comtemplation which moves into intutitive mentalism, we reach a barrier that is the limitation of humanity. That limitation, there is no amount of transcendental rising, in the human realm which will reveal to any man WHO GOD IS. Thus the question which should be prominent, at all times, in the consciousness of those seeking to reveal an avenue which will allow themselves first, then others to know that "I can of mine own self do nothing, the Father within, he does the work" is WHAT IS GOD?

In approaching the avenue of revealing, one must truly ask themselve what have I done to cause my birth? What have I done that gave me the power of conscious awareness? What have I done that is the cause of my being able to respond to a thought, a concept, a theory, or even the activity of thought, whether intutitive, transcendental, or psysological? What is it that I have done to give me life, and cause me to deny, or accept there is a power greater than I, which I can't even begin to fatom? If a person is not in denial, they can only come to the conclusion that I am not the cause of anything concerning my life, and therefore, the reality of me is that I can have no effect upon my life; with one exception: "If I be lifted up, I will gather all men unto me."

Now if one is truly honest with themself, and acknowledge I am not the cause of me, thus not the cause of my ability to do anything, one can only realize, in earnest conclusion THAT TRUTH HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH THEM; that truth deals only with the "I" which is the cause and effect of everything that has been created, and that "I" is in the Father, and the Father is in the "I", because they are one and the same.

"My people die for lack of knowledge." The HEALING PRINCIPLE of LIFE is giving one's self unconditionally to the CAUSE, and EFFECT, of that Source of Life in the individual without exception, for when one gives themself unconditionally, there can be no greed, no animosity, no eye for and eye, tooth for a tooth mentality; there can only be a following of "But I say unto you" obediency.

There are no secrets in Spirit, and the only secret man finds upon him constantly is the lack of knowledge of knowing how he transcends from one level of understanding and wisdom to another,--and this becomes a secret, in the human realm because of man's possessiveness; --therefore, because of this truth, man can never know what the transitional expereince is? Man can't know because birth, death, and living the expand between the two are only found in the human mind, which is a wave of its possessiveness incorporation into the universal human mentalism.

jufa



CAN ANY PHYSICAL EVENT HAVE MEANING?

What is meaning? I look at meaning as applying only to words and statements. Never to phsyical objects or physical events.
We often hear said when a baby is born, that its meaningful. But what do we mean by that? Aren't we saying that the birth itself holds meaning to the mother, to the father or to any other relative, indeed perhaps pastor or friends could also be included as being 'blessed' by this, their lives richer and more complete. What we mean to say, is there is a lot of meanings that can apply. All of those meanings as a group, are what we mean by "meaningful".
And what are each of these meanings?
- the mother will have a long-lasting loving relationship (a belief, not a truth, the meaning is implied, not shown. Its valid usually, and meaningful if true, but THIS STATEMENT is what is meaningful and has meaning, not the event of the birth)
- it adds to the gene pool (again, true, but this statement here has meaning, not the birth)
- after 6 miscarriages, the mothers former pain and suffering is less devastating. (that would be a meaningful statement, with meaning we can apply to each word and the statement itself, and does not apply to the event of the birth)
My point is, I don't see any physical event as ever having any meaning at all. Meanings are "that which we apply to words and statements only".
jufa had asked me my purpose, or what purpose life had. I replied it need not have any. I reject that any life has meaning, other than the private ones we apply to them And THOSE meanings would always be the statements that refer to the object (in this case life), not the object itself.
Meanings are contrived by us. So are all truth statements. They are inventions of mind. All statements, are concoctions of language. Beliefs too. When we say "the earth is a sphere", the truth/false condition only applies to the statement, not to what the statement refers to. The statement is what is true or false, not the earth. Thats the example for empirical truths. For tautologous truths the example is that "1+1=2" is a truth as a complete statement, its that which is true, and is not saying "1 is true" and doesn't say that. In fact its semantically invalid to say "1 is true" at anytime, or "the earth is true". What we mean of course, is "1" exists (proven if 1+1=2 is true) or that the earth exists (proven if the earth is a sphere is true) How can the earth be a sphere, if it doesn't exist?
My point is to address the issue of "meaning" and to get peoples perspectives on it. Do you consider that meaning can apply to physical events? If so, can you show me what meanings you can apply to physical events? Can you show me that meaning can be applied to it, and not the statements you derive as meaningful?
I maintain anytime you accredit anything as "meaningful" it probably is so, because you can declare so many things about it that have meaning. Also, that 'what is meaningful', is the group of statements as a whole, and the meaning applied to each of them individually.
Anyway, if you agree with me, you must see that this disqualifies the hope of any meaning applying to physical events. If so, life and purpose, and the existence of us, can said to have no shown and proven meaning at all. Only meanings we apply to it, and each of them are not us.
Thus, any meaning we have to living, is something we derive privately, and only the statements themselves would have meaning.
Thoughts?
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jufa Reply Physical events and meaning. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------
You are correct, I ask you, as I ask all what is the purpose for their existence, or what purpose life has. You have just answered this question posed to you in your statement: "And THOSE meaning would always be the statements that refer to the object (in this case life), and not to the object itself." Now this statement means that the statements one refer to is the objectiveness of one's living, and the subjectiveness the foundation for which they have based their existence upon. What is missing, though, is the object itself (in this case life), for it is life which allows any and all statements to come forth from those living that life. Why? because it is life itself which you are, not the objects of life.
So what is meaning? Meaning is always one's ability to live the thoughts they think, whether those thought are considered on a high, or low plane, whether or not those thought can be carried out physically. Meaning, therefore, is the cause and effect of one's life manifested by what they have thought, in the human realm.
But the reality of meaning, in the kingdom of the unconditioned Mind, to to realize that you are the image of creation, and the likeness of all within creation. This means, when you enter into the kingdom of the unconditioned Mind, there is nothing to oppose the pureness of your image and likeness because that what you think in the kingdom of the unconditioned Mind continues on infinitely, until you change the thought. This is why it is stated, you are made "not after the law of carnal commandment, but after the power of an endless life."
In this sense, meaning means life is to be lived unconditionally. Why? because life put no conditions on anyone or anything to live it.
Greg
Reply Thanks for the reply Jufa ---------------------------------------------------------------------------
You are correct, I ask you, as I ask all what is the purpose for their existence, or what purpose life has. You have just answered this question posed to you in your statement: "And THOSE meaning would always be the statements that refer to the object (in this case life), and not to the object itself."
- I am saying there, that 'meaning' applies to the statements or words we use to describe events, rather than the event itself. I am saying that physical events are themselves, without purpose. Purpose being defined as 'having a higher purpose' or meaning. Events themselves require a CAUSE, but I would not call that cause a 'higher purpose'. This makes sense in the model where meaning is only applicable to the statement and not the event, however its still a belief I hold to. I cannot prove "there is no higher meaning".
Now this statement means that the statements one refer to is the objectiveness of one's living, and the subjectiveness the foundation for which they have based their existence upon.
- you are using terms in a way I am not. Belief statements can be objective or subjective, truth statement can only be objective. I am saying that the truth of any statement, is in the statement itself, not what the statement refers to. I can show and demonstrate for example that a specific dog "has ears" or not. The truth, is the in the statement itself "that dog has ears" is what is true or false... the statement. I cannot find any truth on the dog, or on its ear. If I state "that ball is blue", then the truth of that, is in the statement, not the blue ball. Of course these are material objects, not abstractions like numbers. With a metaphysical object like the number 1, I can say "1+1=2" is true, but its the STATEMENT that is true. Not the object "1". So I am saying that MEANING can apply to statements and terms and words, not physical events. Physical events we GRANT meaning to, we GIVE them meaning. A baby is born for example. Very meaningful to the mother or father. But WHAT is? Is it the birth itself, or all the implications of it? Are those implications physical things? I maintain it IS meaningful to the parents of course, however those meanings are not in the birth itself, they are in all that can be implied ABOUT the birth.
What is missing, though, is the object itself (in this case life), for it is life which allows any and all statements to come forth from those living that life. Why? because it is life itself which you are, not the objects of life.
- we need to be alive to say anything yes. When I apply the expression "the object itself", I mean 'the object of the statement', or the SUBJECT of the statement. ie: what the statement is about.
So what is meaning?
- well for me, meaning is... that which we can say can be determined validly to express an idea. Its not truth, its 'what we mean'. When a baby is born and we say it is meaningful, I contend what THAT means, is 'there are many things we can say that holds meaning about this birth'. The physical event itself is painful. Does pain have meaning? That is another physical event, so I say no. We may say "that pain told me to see a doctor", but what we MEAN to say is "I felt a pain, and I resolved to go see a doctor due to it". There was nothing meaningful about the pain itself. The word "pain" has meaning to us. Pain itself doesn't, only what we resolve ABOUT it. Same as the birth or any other physical event. I see it as superstitious to think "I wore my lucky suit so I will get the job" or "I don't step on sidwalk cracks, so my mothers back is safe". In those instances, the believer is suggesting that a 'meaning' applies to the physical event itself. That to step on the sidewalk crack means something on its own. I deny that.
Meaning is always one's ability to live the thoughts they think, whether those thought are considered on a high, or low plane, whether or not those thought can be carried out physically. Meaning, therefore, is the cause and effect of one's life manifested by what they have thought, in the human realm.
- different strokes
But the reality of meaning, in the kingdom of the unconditioned Mind, to to realize that you are the image of creation, and the likeness of all within creation.
- I see that as a goal of the believer, and to them, if they reach these goals, that this would have a lot of meaning to them, like a baby being born. The meanings would be many and deep. Each of them, would be a statement about WHAT is meaningful. Just sharing.
This means, when you enter into the kingdom of the unconditioned Mind, there is nothing to oppose the pureness of your image and likeness because that what you think in the kingdom of the unconditioned Mind continues on infinitely, until you change the thought. This is why it is stated, you are made "not after the law of carnal commandment, but after the power of an endless life."
- well, if that is what gives meaning to the understanding of a believer, all the power to him.
In this sense, meaning means life is to be lived unconditionally. Why? because life put no conditions on anyone or anything to live it.
- an open minded statement for a believer, if what you are saying is that "God places no conditions on people", which does seem to jive with your comments of "God is no respector of persons". However if so, then why would you bother pursuing knowledge along the lines of God? If God is a respector of no person, then my faith in it or not would be unimportant? Thanks for the reply Jufa... I tried to engage you on Two-Trees, but such a hostile enviroment does not lend itself to sensible discussion. Please feel free to visit me on my board, where its more of a quiet sanctuary right now. Shy has the link. Be well.

jufa Reply Why would you bother? ---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Thank you also Greg for an open-minded discussion.
I bother because in this realm we have the greatest opportunity to purge ourselves of our own self- destruction. This is because while we are here, that which is our seems detached, but in reality that which is in your mind, and that which appears not to be so is an illusion, and I base this on this truth. And object cannot be in the same place at the same time. Now this is to say, you cannot claim you see something out there, and that something is occupying the space in your mind, and the space outside of your mind. You cannot be in two places at the same time, but you can be here, and you can be there in your mind.
When you realize that your thoughts are not only who you are, but what you see, hear, touch, taste , smell, and think, you will realize the reality of you is your thoughts, not your senses.
Now I've said this to say that because your senses appear detached in this realm, the direct consequences of your thought do not, and will not seems to affect you directly. But once you leave this realm, your thoughts, and you cannot deny your thoughts and based on your knowledge and belief in good and evil, become the actual feelings then and there. In the Spirit realm, you become what you think instantly because this is all the Spirit realm is, consciousness of thought.
You will find that what you believed and lived in the earth realm, belongs to you in the Spirit realm, if you have not shed the old, and put on the new. So I bother because that what I will be then, depends on what I have knowledge, belief, and think now.

Neuminas Reply Some thoughts on meaning ---------------------------------------------------------------------------

Interesting stuff, here.
When we say "X has meaning" I think one of the things we are saying is that there is a deeper significance. Is this helpful? Let me try and make my thoughts more specific.
A mother says "This birth is meaningful" And what she means is that the birth is important for more than just the literal, obvious reasons that it's important. Now, the reasons that a person has for believing X is meaningful are a result of our concepts. If we were robots, nothing would be meaningful. But I don't think this means that it's only a verbal phenemona. Because our concepts, hopefully, are roughly accurate. So to assert that "my life has meaning" is to assert that their is a deeper significance to it than a surface review might imply. To say that "my life has meaning" is to say that if I wish to asses what ramifications my life had on the universe, I would need to take a long, deep, and careful look. This is maybe vague and squishy; but I think it's a start.

jufa) Reply Meaning ---------------------------------------------------------------------------
You are correct Neu., Life has a more deeper meaning than a man of the flesh can fathom for this reason, man is not allow to continue on his quest, in the physical world because, in this world, everything is on a time table which has nothing to do with birth, death, or living the expand between the two. Life's meaning is about expanding, but death will not permit expansion's continuance, in the world of flesh. So where does expansion, and meaning continue, and find comprehension? when it has always been the reality of Life, in the consciousness of thought. The reality of meaning to the man is in the thought, but to reach thought expansionistic reality is to become one with the thought unconditionally.
This is true because when thoughts come to man, they conme unconditionally, but man in his possessiveness, place the conditions on the thoughts he brings forth because he believes they are his, but they did not originate with him, thus, man seize, and possess that which doesn't belong to him, then put conditions on other people to recognize those thoughts as if he wass the creator. Life, meaning, and thoughts, go much more deeper than the average man will admit because of egotistical selfishness.




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